Interview: Dan Heath, Co-Composer of the “Big Eyes” Song

Posted on January 13, 2015 at 8:00 am

Tim Burton’s “Big Eyes” is based on the real-life case of Walter Keane, who said he was responsible for the hugely successful “big eye” paintings of children in the 1960’s, and his wife Margaret Keane, who, as determined in a court case, really painted them. It is a haunting story with an appropriately haunting theme song, co-written by singer Lana Del Ray and her frequent collaborator Dan Heath. He talked to me about how they worked together and what he learned from writing for reality television.

This is a story that began with an image and then became a drama and then you take it into a third dimension with music.

It began with Lana singing a melody into my voice memo on my iPhone. And then I took that and started building on it after having seen the film because I wanted it to blend in with the score by Danny Elfman as well and be a bit seamless. And I started building up chord changes, and the progression, and the textures and the layers and the strings and the bass and all that stuff based on the melody she was singing. And really my favorite part of the song is the bridge where it sort of breaks down and she ends up saying “it’s amazing what women in love will do.” It’s such a pretty part because it’s a kind of descending pizzicato line and then it kicks back into this sort of epic chorus. But it was really nice to get to make the chorus so big because it’s quite dramatic and I like the dynamic range of the pieces. It was subdued in the verses and sort of explodes into this sort of epic thing in the chorus where she’s singing “with your big eyes and your big lies.” The process of writing was actually really good fun. We got quite a bit of creative freedom on it as well so there weren’t too many boundaries and it felt like we just got to do what we love to do which was amazing.

How did the score influence the way that you composed or orchestrated the song?

I’m a massive Danny Elfman fan and I’m a huge Tim Burton fan as well and I think whatever those two get involved together is just magic. And so that was a good place to start. Listening to the score, I did get different cues from different parts of the movie. It wasn’t like I was sort of referencing. I just sort of got a vibe from it and feel from it and based on that vibe and feel, I definitely got a lot of inspiration from the film and the music in the film.

What was the first instrument you ever learned how to play?

Piano actually. I started playing by ear when I was around five or six and when I was a bit older I started taking lessons and then got pretty serious about playing piano and really just getting good at it. By ten I think I was disciplined enough to practice six hours a day. That’s was the first instrument that I learned how to play and that’s what I write on today. My piano skills just aren’t what they used to be but I still compose on the piano.

Did you grow up in a musical family?

My dad is not really that musical but he got me into a lot of good music when I was growing up. He got me into the Beatles and the Who and the Kinks and Abba. My mom was a classically trained pianist as well so she had more music on her side. I have to say that there was always a lot of music going on at home when I was growing up and I also got to see a lot of musicals growing up as well like “Phantom Of The The Opera” and Cats and “Starlight Express” and “Les Mis” and I always really enjoyed going to those things because they are really cool. And I went to a music oriented school when I was growing up as well. I was in the orchestra and I played a lot of classical music back then as well sort of like rock from the 60’s 70’s and 80’s music. I got introduced to Led Zeppelin when I was about 12 years old and that flipped my world upside down because it was incredible music. It still is. The first album I ever bought was that Batman soundtrack which Prince did a lot of songs on. And I used to listen to that like every night before going to bed I liked all the song and then I loved Guns n Roses Appetite for Desctruction. The first album that really just like sent me into a different place was Led Zeppelin IV, which was just incredible.

How did you start working with Lana Del Rey?

She used to go out with my best friend in the world about 10 years ago. I was living in Boston going to school at the time and I would go down and visit them in New York and that’s how I met her. And then over the years we stayed in touch and she used to play me bits and pieces of music she was working on and I used to play her bits and pieces of music I was working on. And then one day before she signed her record deal with Interscope we wrote one of her singles called Bluejeans and it was our first writing experience together ever. So it was a real success that we got to write that and it did so well and that sort of launched me into the songwriting world.

When you’re working with her are you thinking about her voice? Are you gearing it for her?

Totally yes, the stuff I write for her is different from the stuff I write for anybody else. I think the stuff I write for her has got a lot more of a cinematic feel, and it’s very magical and very ethereal and very emotional. I have just been working with her for a few years now, so I think I’m starting to get what she likes and what she doesn’t. But normally like if I really like something, she really likes it too which is really cool. It is great because we’re a good team.

You did cues for reality shows for a while, right?

I was very grateful for it at the time. You know, getting to do music and getting paid for it as well. It kept the lights on and it kept the rent paid.

I would imagine that it was actually quite a learning experience.

It did get my technical chops up a lot on how to deliver styles. It’s definitely worth a lot doing it. I was writing about three or four pieces of music a day sometimes in all sorts of different styles. There is comedy, there is tension, there is suspense, there is action and all that sort of stuff. You are turning out cues so quickly that I definitely learned a lot. I would say especially in the work ethic area, just knuckling down for a good ten hour day writing music.
It did the job and it was a great learning experience too and as I said before I’m extremely grateful that I had that because it did keep the lights on and did enable me to write music, get paid and also focus on my own stuff when I wasn’t doing that.

What are you working on next?

I’m working on my own EP right now which is really cool. I’m doing four tracks and all of them are going to be quite film-score-y but all of them are going to have original vocals and melodies and I’m working four different singers for each track. And so I’m really excited about that. I’m also going to be working on Lana’s new album. And I’m working with these very different singers, trying to get some good songs oout of the door. And hopefully I’m going to be doing a film this year as well, my own film, which I would love to do I am not sure where or how yet but that’s my hope.

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Interview: Matthew Llewellyn, Composer for Wally Lamb’s “Wishin’ and Hopin'”

Posted on December 20, 2014 at 9:40 am

Wishin’ and Hopin’ is Lifetime movie airing December 21, 2014, based on the novel by Wally Lamb. It stars Molly Ringwald and Meat Loaf with narration by Chevy Chase. Composer Matthew Llewellyn was kind enough to answer my questions about creating a score for this nostalgic holiday story.

How did you first come to this project and what were the guidelines for the score?

I first heard about the project back in June from producer Andrew Gernhard and director Colin Theys of Synthetic Cinema International. That’s when I learned that the film was to be based on the New York Times best-selling novel by Wally Lamb. It sounded like an amazing opportunity to write a period-sounding score that could be fun and light but also very dramatic and emotional. This would be a vastly different score from our last collaboration on the Chiller TV (NBCUniversal) horror film “Deep in the Darkness”. There weren’t any specific guidelines for the score other than it needed to be very thematic and really evoke the holiday spirit.

What did you to do evoke the retro/nostalgic vibe of the story?

The first step was to write memorable themes that could reappear throughout the film and help tell the story. Initially, we were only going to have a few themes just for the major characters (Felix, the Nuns, and Rosalie) but as I started getting further along in the composing process I ended up writing many more themes. (Madame Frechette and Zhenya) The most important thing I needed to do was to nail the tone of the film. We discussed a variety of styles for the score and eventually landed on a traditional orchestra sound. It just seemed like the right choice for this kind of movie and I couldn’t be happier with the result.

What are the special challenges of scoring a film set at Christmas? Do you make use of some of the season’s traditional music?

There was quite a bit of period music in the film that really helped ground it in the 1960’s. Before I started composing, Colin and I kicked around the idea of re-recording certain Christmas songs and possibly producing new arrangements but the schedule was too tight so they licensed all the songs heard in the film and I composed the film’s original score around them. I didn’t use any specific Christmas material in my score, however it was important that my score sounded “one” with the songs.

Molly Ringwald is the daughter of a musician and a singer. Did she have any comments or suggestions? Or did you begin work after all the shooting was done.

I started working on the film during the editing process so I’m not sure how involved she was in making those decisions.

Were there any scenes that were especially challenging to score?

The hardest scene to score was the climax of the film when the children have their Tableau Vivant performance. This was especially challenging because in the scene there are a group of kids singing on stage while all hell is breaking loose backstage. My job for this scene was to not only accentuate the madness backstage but also keep the energy up and hectic when the picture went back to the kids on stage.

What was the first score you ever worked on and what did you learn from that experience?

I actually didn’t start writing music until college so it’s hard for me to pinpoint what my first score actually was. I do however remember my first scoring project at Berklee, called “Salt Marsh”. It was a very short scene, only about ninety seconds, of birds in the wild. I thought about posting it recently as a “throwback-Thursday” on Facebook but it doesn’t represent my work today as a composer.

What music do you like to listen to at this time of year?

I have an extremely eclectic taste in music; I actually went to KROQ’s Almost Acoustic Christmas a few days ago and saw some of my favorite bands like Alt-J, Weezer, and No Doubt. I am definitely a sucker for Christmas music though, being a big fan of the classics. I find myself listening to a lot of Frank Sinatra around the holidays; he will always be the king in my book.

Composer Christopher Lennertz on “Horrible Bosses 2”

Posted on December 1, 2014 at 7:00 am

I am usually so busy taking notes when I am at a movie screening that I don’t have time to pay much attention to the score, but at “Horrible Bosses 2” I took a moment to scrawl “great music!” Not a surprise. As I explained in our last interview, Christopher Lennertz is tops when it comes to movie comedy. And this one was coming home for him — not his first sequel, but the first where he worked on the first one.

I loved the variety and selection of songs in the film, from classics to some surprises. How do you work on a score that is so song-driven?

Honestly, the first thing I have to do as somebody who is writing the underscore is to make sure that I don’t get into the way of any of the songs, the big songs, in any way that would take away how effective they’re going to be. And then also making sure that I know that what I write is going to fit with all their sounds, so the audience gets the feeling that they’re in the right world. But this one actually turned out to be more interesting because there’s is a part towards the end of the movie where they actually took scenes from my score from the first film and we did a matchup with Straight Outta Compton by NWA. And that just worked perfectly. I didn’t know that was actually going to work but it actually fit together really well. To me it was a nice way to take the character scenes from the first “Horrible Bosses” and then infuse it with this new energy with this new kidnapping that they were doing. It’s kind of like an iPod on crack in a way because it’s got such range.

What my score had to do was bring in bits and pieces that would then make all those work together. Because in my score I have got big guitars much more in the way that they would be in “How You Like Me Now,” from The Heavy and some a little more in the rock world but then I have hip-hop beats that would make more sense and there is a big Macklemore moment right in the middle. And so had a little modern pop and I had some little classic hip-hop beats and we tried to keep all of that mix together because the songs were so all over the place, in a good way. In a way to keep it really interesting and to make people feel that they’re having a really fun ride.

When you were growing up, did you ever think you would be called upon to write a song called . None of the three credited to you have titles that I can use when I write about this.

I know, unfortunately not. Well we did the same thing on the soundtrack with the first album. They are actually all lines from the movie. As soon as Julia walked out and said that line I was like, “Yup, that’s the song title.” I knew right away. I was like “Yup, that’s the one.”

You seem to gravitate to movies that combine comedy and action.

I love when they do that because when I even think back about some of my early favorite movies, they’re not just comedies. I loved “The Blues Brothers” growing up. That car chase was so fantastic and huge and I think they wrecked like 197 cars or something to do that.

I love it and I think it makes the comedy funnier when you do have moments of actions or moments of stuff where things are actually little serious. And then when the comedy pops up to take the edge off, there’s a bigger contrast, you know what I mean? And I think that’s what we try to do here. For example there was the spot when Chris Pines first, he started beating himself up to show how he would do it if he was kidnapping himself. So he was in their office and he started beating the daylights out of himself and so I was like, “All right, we should actually go extra serious on this so that by the end of it he’s got blood dripping down his nose. And then you cut back to the guys and you cut to Charlie Day and he’s got his jaw open. He’s like, “Oh my God what the hell is he doing?” And then I brought in a little funny kind of quirky guitar thing and it becomes more humorous because it was book ended by a lot more serious stuff and I think that kind of contrast is what makes it really pop.

Do you have character themes in the score?

Well, the three guys don’t have separate themes. They have their theme as a group, and that’s back from the first movie. And then there is a new theme for Chris Pine and there’s a new theme for Christoph Waltz which is mostly when he just first appears, because by the time he gets intermingled in their craziness their story is taking over. It’s really about them and Chris more than it’s about Christoph Waltz. And then of course Aniston got her theme which is back from the first movie but in different ways. And I think it’s even raunchier once we have gotten into the sex addicts meeting and then at the end when she walks in the hotel room. We kind of ramped it up to a lot of saxophones and then some low base and things like that and really try to sell that all the way home. It’s not like you need a lot of help by the way.

In the same way you’re mixing action with comedy, you’re mixing sex with comedy. And it’s very funny when we see the outtakes in the end. It is clear it was not easy for Jennifer Aniston to say some of those lines.

Yes and you can see that she’s trying to keep a straight face. And then she’s dying because she knows that’s totally against what people think her type is. And that’s probably that’s why she had so much fun doing the role.

Is it easier or harder to do a sequel?

I have done “Cats and Dogs 2” and a couple of others but I didn’t do the original for those. So it was nice to be able to do this and be able to go but to some of my thematic material after a year or two away from it, three years away from it, to be able to go back and say, “Yes, I remember what I like about that and I also remember what I didn’t get to do that last time that I wanted to but it didn’t fit the movie. And so it was it was kind of fun to be able to go back, and then revisit and change it in the new ways with the guys in new situations and the new characters that are in this movie. It made it feel fresh to me at least, and made it feel like I wasn’t just going back to the exact same thing. It was sort of a new interpretation but I’m such a huge fan of being respectful to movie series that everyone loves. When you see Indiana Jones, you want to hear Indiana Jones music. And when you see James Bond you want to hear James Bond music. So I feel like when people saw Charlie and Jason and Jason, they want to hear “Horrible Bosses,” and so to not let that happen would also be a big mistake. Same thing when Julia first walks into the dentist office, we all know what’s supposed to go there, let’s do it. That’s kind of my approach, a lot of love and respect.

I didn’t count, but it seemed to me there were more songs in the sequel.

I think there were more songs in this one than the first one. Not by a lot but by a few. I think there was more action in this one than the first one. And I think that it’s a lot easier to put songs over an action sequence than to put it underneath a lot of dialogue because inevitably nobody wants to have a really big song and then turn it down so you can actually hear what they’re saying. So I think because there were some more big action moments in this one that made it possible to put in more songs. And quite honestly I think the budget was a little bit bigger because the first movie did so well. And there was different director. But I would say there is about the same amount of score as there was in the first movie. And then there were just a couple more songs. So there is actually more music overall than the first one but I think was really fun and it really helped to have the right energy.

Did you ever have a horrible boss?

Of course, I had many. I think that the worst boss I’ve ever had, I wouldn’t even call it a boss because it was an internship. I wasn’t even being paid. It was literally right out of the movie “Swimming with the Sharks,” with Kevin Spacey. He would say, “Go down the street and pick me up a hot dog”, and I would bring it to him and he would open up the back and he would literally look at me and say “What the f*** is this?” And I’d be like, “What the… what do you mean what is this? You told me to get hot dogs”, and he’d be like, “I don’t want that anymore” and I would be like, “Are you kidding?” He would forget what he asked me to do and he would forget he never told me that he changed his mind.

It would be very hard to find anyone in this country who hasn’t at one point or the other had a boss that they didn’t like or have a job that they didn’t like. These three guys are idiots and if they can get out of their horrible situations that means you can do it. Or even if you can’t, there is something about that fantasy that makes people want to vicariously live through them and be like, “Wow, what if I kidnapped my boss.” Once that magic thing happens, I think that’s why people love it. Plus it was also so crazy and funny that people really wanted to see it and that’s why they came back for the second one.

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Danny Elfman: Film Score Composer

Posted on November 8, 2014 at 8:00 am

We attended a superb concert at the Kennedy Center, with the National Symphony playing some of film scores Danny Elfman composed for his long-time colleague Tim Burton. So I was especially glad to see this excellent interview with Danny Elfman with Sean O’Neal from the A.V. Club, a part of their Set List series. I loved his story about coming up with the idea for the “Batman” theme, one of my favorites, on an airplane.

It’s one of my funny stories, because instead of being in a car when the title music hit me, I was on a 747 flying back from London, and all I was thinking was, “I don’t have the ability to pick up a napkin and write music.” I’ve never taken music lessons. I can write, but I need a keyboard and some kind of reference to write. And I didn’t have a keyboard. Now I try to travel with a little equipment, and if it ever came up again, I could grab my little mini-computer and play these parts. But at that point, I had nothing—certainly not a laptop. All I had was this little Sony tape recorder, so I kept running into the bathroom and laying down track after track after track, hoping that they would later mean something. I was thinking melody, counter-melodies, rhythms, all this stuff separately, and I kept getting more ideas and running back.

I couldn’t do it at my seat, because I didn’t want to sing into my tape recorder with this guy sitting next to me. And it got to the point where I’d open the bathroom door and there’d be two flight attendants standing there saying, “Sir, are you all right?” And I’d go, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m fine.” I’d go back to my seat and be back in the bathroom 10 minutes later, and this time there are three flight attendants. And clearly they’re looking at me as some sort of hopped-up junkie who’s just shooting up every 10 or 15 minutes. I’m sure they didn’t know what was going on. I didn’t appear to be sick or throwing up or green around the gills. If anything, I was excited.

But also the bathrooms were incredibly noisy, so when I got home to my studio—as I had feared—the plane erased the entire piece of music from my mind. Because they played landing music, and I think it was something like “Yesterday” by the Beatles, and it was a total memory eraser. I came off the plane and all I could think of was “Yesterday,” and I’m like, “What happened to the Batman theme? ‘All my troubles seemed so far away…’ Fuck! I’m screwed!” And I turn on the tape recorder, and I have about 30 minutes of notes on there—and all I’m hearing is loud engine noise. I finally heard little bits of myself coming through it, and I could catch a little bit of a “bum bum-bum-bum bum” and I’d go, “There’s a bit of the rhythm, okay, I got that.” And finally it all came back to me and I was able to write it down. But I was really relieved, because it almost is the exact main title to Batman.

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Interview: Us the Duo from “The Book of Life”

Posted on October 13, 2014 at 8:00 am

It’s a Cinderella story times two. Carissa and Michael Alvarado had a romance right out of a fairy tale. And then their creative and professional dreams became reality. One moment they were uploading six-second covers of popular songs to Vine and the next the song they wrote for their wedding was featured in a film (“The Book of Life”) and then they were on tour with Oprah.

If so many wonderful things are going to happen, these are the people you want them to happen to. Carissa and Michael are purely delightful, with enthusiasm and humility, committed to giving their best to each other, their art, and their audience.

You wrote the song that’s in the movie for your wedding, right? When you perform it in concert now, does it bring that moment back to you?

Carissa: Totally, we actually go back in our minds to that day when I’m walking down the aisle and he’s crying like a baby and I’m trying not to cry because I don’t want to get my make-up all over my face. People were laughing because here I am in my wedding dress and I have this big old drum that I put around my neck. But it’s nice that every time we perform it we kind of are reminded about that day when we got married. It was the best day of our lives so it’s really nice to get to go back there every time we perform the song.

How long have you been married?

Carissa: About two and a half years now we’ve been married, yes.

Okay, so you performed it at your wedding, you put it up on Youtube and then what happened?

Michael: And then it went viral which was so weird. It had a million views in a week. And we were like, wow! I didn’t know this was that special to everyone. For us it was very special but to the public I didn’t think that they would take to it so well. We honestly just put it up just so we could share it with our friends and our family. So Fox was trying to complete this movie, “The Book of Life.” There was one scene left and it was missing music and they needed this triumphant love song to pull together the whole story. They reached out to our record label Republic and said, “Do you have anything that fits this moment?” And they recommended our song.

They called and said, “I have this opportunity, I don’t know if you’re interested.” We had just signed so everything is very new to us. Six months ago we were just mowing the lawn and playing with our dog and now we are doing this. “Hey, your song is going to be in a feature film and they want to meet with you.” And this is Fox! I mean these are big names. We show up to their studios and we play and they said, “Okay, you guys are great. We want to actually animate our characters to your song.” So not only is the song in the film but the actors are singing our song and they are animating to it, it’s amazing!

So our mind is blown and then Oprah sits down to watch this movie as she hears the song, falls in love with it and then asks us if we can come on tour with her and again, we are just…

Carissa: I am like pinching myself! Is this real? Like every day. It was a dream come true. First of all, to get to meet Oprah, which is pretty awesome! She hugged me and I’m like, “I don’t want to hug anyone else because I don’t want to get rid of this hug.” I’m like, “I want to hold on to you forever.”

Michael: I didn’t get hugs for a week!

Carissa: It’s crazy because the first day we performed on this tour, she actually surprised us and everyone else that was watching and came onstage. We didn’t expect that at all and my jaw about dropped to the floor.

Michael: There is a picture of it; she’s standing in between us and we are hugging her and our faces are like…

Carissa: Like shock face. But she is so sweet, she is a great hugger, she smells good.

So tell me a little bit about the tour. What does that involve?

Carissa: It’s kind of just motivational speaking to everyone and it’s inspiring people to do what they love and live the life that they want to live. That’s perfect for us because that’s kind of our passion as well and what I think is our calling to do; it’s a positive message and shows that you should follow your heart and follow your passions.

You met at a music video?

Michael: Yes, a music video shoot. We were both extras and there she is. I grew up in North Carolina so I never went to LA but I was there visiting and I end up at this music video shoot. It was love at first sight for me and so I flew back to North Carolina and tried to make her fall in love with me for the next six months over social media, which worked! She said, “Sure, I feel the same way about you.” So I packed my bags, moved to LA, I asked her to marry me; all very quick again. And we got married and then we started making music together. But we were both musicians before that happened and nothing ever really happened in our careers. We always wondered, “What is that missing piece?” We felt something was missing. And then when we got together for the first time and started singing and harmonizing, we looked at each other with this stare. I am like, “Oh my gosh, did you hear what I just heard?” Solo we are okay but together something unique happens. We got married and then we started Us the Duo, just a few days after our marriage so it was really surreal and kind of crazy how it all came together.

What’s your best advice for a happy marriage?

Michael: Our advice is more about working together and balancing that with our relationship. I think it’s important to always keep the marriage first and the music will kind of follow and it will trickle-down into whatever we are playing. And we have seen the balance kind of switch and we get panicked like, “Man what are we doing?” So no matter if we are arguing or what’s happening we always work that out before we step on stage or before we go into an interview. Like, “We need 10 minutes just to figure this out and talk through it.” So communication really is the key and always keeping that as our top priority and then work second.

You became a Vine sensation with six-second covers that just showed the bottom of your face. How did that happen?

Carissa: It’s funny because it started out, he came out to me and was like, “Hey, I have an idea.” When he gets an idea, he’s very passionate about it and he asked to do it in the moment. So he found out about Vine, about 10 PM, I am on the couch there with the dog watching TV in my PJs, no makeup on and I’m ready just to hang out. He comes to me and he’s like, “Hey, we’ve got to film a Vine. I know you don’t know what Vine is but we’re going to do it right now.” And am like, “What are you talking about? I look like a wreck right now, my hair is looking crazy.” He says, “Okay, fine, we can film it from your nose down so people don’t know you look tired. And I said, “Okay, fine.” So we do it and then it kind of becomes our brand. And he kept going and am like, “Okay, let’s just keep doing this, is our thing now.” And then Good Morning America invited us out and we did like a reveal of the rest of our faces, a dramatic reveal showing who we are, our identities.

And do you do covers when you perform before audiences?

Michael: Yes, and we end with the theme song from “The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.”

What you want people to know about “The Book of Life?”

Carissa: Oh my gosh everyone can see it, the whole family can go and see it. It’s funny, it’s romantic, it’s adventurous and it’s just a mixture of all genres. It kind of takes you on this journey with them and inspires people. And then you leave wanting to follow your passion, follow your heart.

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